Matthew Ko // Ep 84 // Bringing the Joy of Care Back to Medicine with DeepScribe

Welcome to Episode 84 of the Asian Hustle Network Podcast! We are very excited to have Matthew Ko on this week's episode.

We interview Asian entrepreneurs around the world to amplify their voices and empower Asians to pursue their dreams and goals. We believe that each person has a message and a unique story from their entrepreneurial journey that they can share with all of us.

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Matthew Ko is the co-founder and COO at DeepScribe Inc., an artificially intelligent medical scribe platform. DeepScribe produces accurate, reliable, and quick EHR-ready medical documentation – simply by listening to the natural patient encounter. Prior to this, Matt was a consultant within Ernst & Young’s Data and Analytics practice, helping leading companies innovate by enhancing their ability to use and interpret data. He is a proud alumnus of the Walter A. Haas School of Business at the University of California, Berkeley. Fun fact: Matt has a sandwich named after him at the Tivoli’s Restaurant in Berkeley.

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Transcript

Intro: (00:00:00) Hey guys, welcome to Asian Hustle Network Podcast, My name is Bryan. 

And my name is Maggie 

And we interview Asian entrepreneurs around the world to amplify their voices and empower Asians to pursue their dreams and goals.

We believe that each person has a message and a unique story from their entrepreneurial journey that they can share with all of us.

Maggie: (00:00:23) Hi everyone. Welcome to the Asian hustle network podcast. Today. We have a various special guests with us. His name is Matthew . Matthew is the co-founder and COO at deep scribe, Inc. And artificially intelligent medical scribe platform. Deep scribe produces accurate, reliable, and quick EHR ready medical documentation simply by listening to the natural patient encounter. Prior to this, Matt was a consultant within Ernst and Young’s data and analytics practice. Helping leading companies innovate by enhancing their ability to use and interpret data. He is a proud alumnus of the Walter a has school of business at the university of California. Berkeley funded back. Matt has a sandwich named after him at the  restaurant in Berkeley. Matt, welcome to the show.

Matthew: (00:01:11)  Thanks for having me guys.

 

Bryan: (00:01:15) Yeah. We’re excited to have you on the podcast today, Matt and. And we just have to talk about the sandwich real quick.

 

Matthew: (00:01:26)  Um, wow. You really got me there. Um, you know, it was just, yeah. I used to go to this restaurant called tamales in Berkeley every single day, like literally every single day. And I would order this sandwich, um, that was not on the menu. I basically like made it myself. And I just grew to, to really, um, connect with the family that owns the restaurant. And we became really good friends. Um, I told a bunch of my friends about the sandwich that I order and they would see the order and eating it and they would eventually go in and start ordering it. And it just happens so frequently that, uh, they decided to name this. The sandwich after me. So when we had like a sandwich naming ceremony and all of that, it was, it was pretty fun.

 

Maggie: (00:02:08) Yeah. Oh, official. I love that. So big accomplishment, not everyone can say they have a sandwich name.

 

Bryan: (00:02:13) It also shows how remarkably consistent you are as a person, kind of hop into your story. Man. Tell us about yourself and you know, want to hear more about your upbringing? Everything.

 

Matthew: (00:02:27) Yeah. Sure. So, um, my name is Matt. Um, as, as you guys probably heard, I am the co-founder of deep drug. Um, so at DC drive, essentially what we do is we automate clinical documentation for doctors. So, you know, when everyone is a patient, uh, they probably would have been to the doctor’s office before. And a lot of people, you know, sometime notice that the doctor is actually typing on a computer. Or writing some notes down. And essentially what we do is we automate the entire process. Um, my background is that I am not a doctor. I am, I don’t have, um, you know, formal training in medicine. Um, my training is from Google and through my experience working. Through deep drive. Uh, my background is mostly in technology. Um, so I served as consultant inside the advanced analytics department of Ernst and Young’s, uh, consulting group. Um, and really we started described to just solve a problem that, that I was going through personally. Um, so when I was working at UI, um, and also when I was in college, I was serving as the care coordinator for my mom when she had breast cancer. And, um, I would actually fly down to be with her during these appointments, helping interpret and helping translate. Um, what is, what is being said? My mom’s from Taiwan and, um, you know, she, she really needed that support, uh, just to make sure that she understood what’s going on throughout every step of the way. Um, And we like to joke that these drives started. Um, when my mom asked me this one question and the question was, are you lying today? Um, and you know, I basically was really taken back by this comment because, um, you know, I, I couldn’t understand why should we even think that. I’m literally flying down to help translate for her. You know, she’s being cared for the same way that when I go see the doctor, as I get cared for and, you know, she used to tell me, she’s like Matt, I used to send karaoke with my doctor. And, you know, my oncologist had to look at me once. And you know, what she really explained to me was that, um, you know, she didn’t really care about what exactly the doctor was saying. You know, all she needed was someone to really kind of hold her hand, look her in the eyes and tell her that everything’s going to be okay. And, you know, when I, when I actually kind of started to realize that, you know, that this wasn’t happening, I became one of those evil patients that you hear about all the time that, you know, goes to Google to get their MD, and which has become one of those terrible patients that we would question everything the doctor’s doing. Um, and yeah, it got to the point where I said, you know, I really want to change this. Maybe I can. Yeah, transfer my mom’s care to somebody. And that’s when I went to my co-founder  whose dad is among colleges. And when I kind of explained to, um, off-leash his dad, what I was going through, he kinda just laughed at me. And he said, Matt, like, You can’t blame your mom’s oncologists for not providing that compassionate care that you’re looking for. And he started to explain to me about all the things that happen beyond, you know, the curtain after the patient leaves the room, right. We started to learn how burnt out clinicians were. Um, we started to learn, um, how important documentation was and, you know, as to kind of geeky kids to be said, Hey, Maybe we can build something cool that, uh, could solve this problem. And that’s really how it all started. Um, so we started deep scribe. It’d be incorporated in 2017. Um, but we didn’t really go to market until the end of 2019. Um, and since then it’s just been a wild ride. Um, we, we now serve as hundreds of clinicians all over the United States. We saved them up to 2.7 hours a day on their documentation, and it’s really kind of a, an amazing journey to be able to, um, you know, see the lives that we change, especially not having that. Medical background that, um, you, you think that you need in order to solve a problem. So  

 

Maggie: (00:06:53) that’s amazing. Yeah, I just wanted to, right now with that, I think we often think, you know, if we want to get into the medical field, you need to be a doctor. You need to be in some sort of role in the medical field, but you don’t have any of the experience at all, but you are still, you know, you and you, and  both were so persistent on solving this problem that you both had, you know, and  also had a father who was a doctor and you both kind of have that inspiration to come up with something like describes. But I think that’s super inspirational.

 

Bryan: (00:07:22) A lot better now. Yeah. No, it’s definitely our first concern. We’ve heard that story too. It’s like, I’m so glad that, you know, it’s not only inspiring to change more lives. But that she’s being bothered and better in general. I really liked the fact that when you describe that’s pretty funny.

 

Maggie: (00:07:45) Yeah. That’s amazing. And so what were the, you know, the, the first couple of months when you, you know, started deep strength, like, and. No going into a field where you have no really strong background in the medical field, what were some of the challenges that you guys went through?

 

Bryan: (00:08:01) Yeah. And to add more of that too, we’re so driven by a mission driven company. It’s a hassle to you to produce them like this because not a lot of people would take that leap to do something. They have no expertise in just because we care about it. And you guys did it, figure it out and roll for along the way and just made it happen.

So hats off.

 

Matthew: (00:08:20) You know, I think the hardest thing is this, like, you know, battling the anxiety, I have a imposter syndrome. Right. I think, you know, um, especially in the startup community, you always feel like, right. And especially, you know, as an Asian American and growing up, you’re always kind of told that you can do better. Right. I would come home with a day and that would be asked why didn’t they get a plus? Right. And you know, to me, I think. It’s good. And now that I look back on it, because it made me a very competitive person and it made me extremely motivated. I’m motivated by that type of, um, You know, you know, that type of train of thought. Um, but at times it was really challenging because he’s kinda, you, you shy away from certain obstacles or certain things because you think that you’re not good enough. So one of the biggest things when we started the company was getting over that fact, right. And really understanding how to look when there’s a wilderness of the way I care about something. And I want to spend my life doing something where, you know, when I go to sleep, I’m thinking about it. And when I get out of bed, I’m thinking about it. And you know, something that actually fulfills me. And, you know, it it’s really liberating to, to be radical about that and to go out there and, and chase your dreams and not wait for the validation of others to, to know that you’re good enough. And I think once, you know, that mindset really took place, it really helped us kind of like get over a lot of the challenges that we had, you know, trying to create a product for somebody, um, that we really kind of didn’t understand a problem firsthand. Um, So it was that. And then I think that the second thing is the feedback, right? So when we started this company, you know, one of the things that we had to do was a lot of customer discovery, right? And as technologists, I feel like you must have this certain way angle that you approach problems. Right. Um, but sometimes that angle is not really what the pay that person is looking for. So to give you guys an example, when we first started the company, um, we didn’t do any customer discovery and we just started building an Alexa skill and, uh, we thought, wouldn’t it be so cool if a doctor can say, Hey, Alexa, you know, take a note of this. Hey, Alexa, take a note of that. And, you know, we all spent, uh, you know, few months kind of developing that. And we ended up getting it to a bunch of, uh, all flashes down, mean friends. And it was just like our baby. We were still excited to give it to them. And after like, A few hours, every single one of them, like just said, you know, this sucks. This is the worst thing that I’ve ever used in my life. Like you guys, you know, you’re doing it all wrong. And we were crushed because, you know, as technologists we’re like, Whoa, this is like the coolest technology ever. You know, this is when Alexa was kind of coming up thing. Um, but you know, I think when we released two back and said, Hey, like why does it suck and started approaching? The problem was to me that we didn’t know anything. And really kind of starting with the customer and saying, look, what would you want out of this? Right. And taking a, uh, a technology perspective from that. That’s when we really started to discover, you know, one of the gems about our solution that still stands strong today, which is this idea of, you know, having an ambient solution, right. Idea of having a technology that you don’t need to interact with through a wakeboard or through anywhere where the trigger. It is something that can understand a national conversation and pull out all of the relevant details from it and summarize it for you in a way that, um, in a way that’s appropriate. Um, so it, you know, just really kind of liberating yourself from all of those assumptions. Um, you know, really helped us at, you know, end up where we are today.

 

Bryan: (00:12:03) That’s that’s amazing. You know, as, uh, some of my listeners know I used to be a software engineer and for me to hear these things, it’s like, it’s so cool. I think it’s really cool. Um, I mean, it’s good that, you know, you’ve launched your product, you’ve launched your MVP, you got feedback immediately. You know, like some people never even get to that point and if they get feedback and they’re so harsh on themselves, like you mentioned earlier, like imposter syndrome, that it just quit. You’re like, wait, I’m building a crappy product. I should just quit because no one likes it. But the fact that you incorporated these feedbacks, although they were negative to begin with created a better product for people, you know, and that’s, that’s a sign of a mature entrepreneur, you know, that’s time that you do want it to happen. That’s sign that, that you’re willing to listen to your customer, because what I realized about other creators and engineers and founders is that sometimes our biggest downfall is that we don’t like to listen to the customer. Well, that’s not true at all. Customer is key guys, like listen to customers, but keep in mind that not all customers know what they’re talking about. You know, so incorporate good ideas and don’t incorporate every single idea. You know, it’s like, Oh, if it fits into your vision, the North star in business plan, then incorporate it. You know, that’s when they want to put them.

Maggie: (00:13:13) Yeah, absolutely. And I think, especially in healthcare as well, I think that now everyone kind of has their own preferences on how they want to receive healthcare or, you know, um, but especially in healthcare, you know, customer’s preferences and their feedback and their opinions are very, very important. And it’s so important for you to take that feedback.

Bryan: (00:13:31) So I do want to ask you a technical question. How do you determine the algorithm to select the keywords that the doctor is saying as important.

Matthew: (00:13:40) I don’t know, too deep into that gender idea. Yeah. You know, it, it took a lot of work, right. Because you know, essentially what we’d had to do was. We had to harvest and develop our own dataset. Right. You know, typically in the academic community, if you had a problem, you go find some data set out there and you train your model on it. Right. And we’re dealing in a space that is so on the cutting edge that, you know, there is no data. The data that we use is a national patient conversation. And, you know, those aren’t really being recorded. Right. And not only that, we need to be able to label these, uh, these conversations. In a very highly accurate way that that is, you know, unshackled from some of the biases of the people that are giving you that data. Right. So one neat thing about these notes is that there is no object. There is an extent there’s a degree of objectivity to what is relevant, uh, to, uh, to, uh, to a patient’s chart. But at the same time, there’s this huge long tail. Of things that some doctors think are important. Others doctors think that aren’t important. And if you’re unable to capture that long tail, it makes it very difficult to say that you have like a comprehensive solution. Um, so I think for us, what we had to do was we had to not only label the data by looking at the final notes that were produced by those doctors, but we had to take our own perspective on it. We had to train our own labelers to go in and say, Hey, you know, this might be important too. Another doctor, even though it’s not important to this doctor. And it just took years of that, to be honest, it’s like years of really kind of understanding what is, what is important, what could be important, what is definitely not important. And, you know, through years and years of that, we’ve been able to train an algorithm that is able to kind of pull things out, but also we’re able to kind of tweak that by accommodating for preferences. Right. So one really cool thing about our product is that, um, there’s a whole conversion later that a doctor can customize. And what I mean by that is like, you know, I like to joke that you can take, um, a note or you can take a note written for the same patient from two doctors, and they’re going to look exactly. They’re going to look totally different. And the reason for that is because he’s preferences, right? Some doctors like Mary verbose sentences, they like going to detail. Their doctors are short and concise and use bullet points. And if, if your solution to that is to give them a robotic note that doesn’t look anything like their ears. They’re going to spend a lot of time, ma you know, realizing your notes, look like theirs. What we’ve been able to do is we have been able to develop a conversion layer that is able to accommodate for some of these, say, if you want to decrease the verbosity of your sentences, we can do that. If you want to change the pronouns of how you refer to the patient, we can do that. If you want to change the body systems that you do for different, you know, physical exam templates, we can do that. And it’s, it’s one of those things where it’s like, you can’t Google it, right? You can’t just go online and find someone that has written directions on how to build this. It’s like, you need to do that by just being, you know, Completely transparent with your customers and understanding whether it needs are. Um, so, uh,

Bryan: (00:16:59) let’s, let’s let’s look cool. It’s still unique. And my goodness, I’m thinking I’m like visualizing my, my head right now. I’m like, dude, that’s, that’s so hard to be in, in the fact that you’re able to capture all the data and create new data sets for this, for this company. That’s that’s that’s amazing, man.

 

Maggie: (00:17:19) So we understand you have a third co-founder as well. So it’s the three of you. Um, and we understand that you’re all technical, but three of you are all technical. And oftentimes, you know, you’d have companies that start off with, uh, a CEO or a founder who, you know, sometimes isn’t technical and they, they bring on a CTO that is not from the technical side. So what are some of the advantages that you guys had when all three of you are technical and you got. You brought in like a blend of like tech and domain understanding and healthcare altogether.

 

Matthew: (00:17:48) Yeah. I, I feel like it’s a double edged sword. Right. So I, I first want to put out that like of my three co-founders I biked for the least technical admin, all of them. Right. Like, you know, both automation and kind of kind of radar or two of the most talented engineers I’ve ever met. Right. We used to joke that when we have a problem and you know, you know, for us, for example, when COVID hit, right, when COVID hit, we said, Hey, like we should build a telemedicine solution. And, you know, we kind of sat back and I sat down with my team. We’re like, Oh, it’ll probably take, you know, two to three months, uh, to build something like this. And then we ask hi Ray or CTO. And he was like, Oh, how does he by Thursday? Um, so, you know, it’s, it’s one of those things where it’s just like, you know, I think it’s, there’s an advantage to that in that, like you, can, you have kind of that diversity of thought in that team dynamic. Cause for me, it’s like, I’m an optimist, right? Because I come from more of a business background and I, I manage everything. That’s not code in the company. Um, but I think the optimism is met with practicality when you start talking to these engineers because, you know, I describe an idea and I’m like, this is a well-thought idea. And, you know, we have to, you know, distill it into, you know, a BRD, a business requirements document, and then attach a functional requirements document. And you start to kind of unpack like, wow, like, you know, if I am expressing a solution this way, and you know, someone else that needs to execute on a solution is thinking about all these other edge cases. Then it becomes like a lot, it becomes a lot harder, uh, to develop something like that without like, um, an orchestra that has kind of, you know, harmonizing the way that these two trains of thought are working. So I think it’s really helped us in that. Like, you know, we, we have a really solid rhythm in the business. But I think sometimes it hurts us because, um, you know, as technologists and as business people we’d want a lot of different things. Right. So when we asked, you know, the engineering team, what is the biggest priority for the business? A lot of them would say, Hey, like infrastructure, let’s make this infrastructure more and more scalable. Right. And this, the sales team would be like, well, it already works. Let’s just build new features. Right. So I think a lot of it is like, you know, that diversity of thought is good, but you need to be careful and mindful about how to kind of orchestrate that and, and bring that back together for it to actually be productive.

 

Maggie: (00:20:29) Yeah. Very interesting. Both sides.

 

Matthew: (00:20:32) Yeah. Yeah. That’s really interesting hearing that, that dynamically, you guys have some technical and business and Israeli it’s really, really true, you know, like. Mrs people, our mentality is Walker, hire us to generate as much revenue as we can. Great. But sometimes it doesn’t connect well with the technical side. It’s like, why, why are you promising that we know we don’t have that radiate gender balance that you all face as like technical, full technical founders. And co-founders. But I want to understand more about your own personal founder journey and what you learned about yourself throughout the last four years. You know, when you start a company, you had a product launch until 2017, 2019. What was your growth mindset like in that Western point where you’re just like, like, is this something that I want to do for the rest of my way? Or how do you overcome like the initial fears and struggles that you began with?

 

Matthew: (00:21:29) Yeah. You know, I think it was a really long journey for me. I think, you know, I had to deal with some personal anxiety. Right. You know, to be honest with you, like when we started the company in 2017, I didn’t tell my parents that I quit my job until 2019. Wow. Oh my goodness. Until we raised millions of dollars from institutional investors. And, you know, the reason for this was, you know,] because as I said, going back to imposter syndrome, right? Like when I graduated college, I started working at a big four accounting firm. It was easy for my parents to be proud. They were like, Hey, like my son works at UI and it was just easier to talk about. Um, and I, and I knew this right. And you know, at the time he was like, Hey mom, dad, I want to, you know, Throw this all away to go pursue this dream that I have. Right. Even though I think it was, it was pretty honorable though. The reason why I wanted to do it, I was still afraid to kind of be open about it. Um, so, you know, the first thing for me was, again, going back to like, just being radical and to say, Hey, like I don’t need any other person’s validation that what I’m doing is right. Like when I wake up from bed every single day, I know what I want to do that day. Right. I don’t need someone to say it’s okay for you to do that. And you know, I think if you have a good head on your shoulders and you, and you are kind of, you know, honest with yourself and, and you’re, you’re, you’re not afraid to do that. And, you know, I think a lot of cool things can happen. Right. You know, when we started the company, like we weren’t getting paid. Right. And my parents didn’t know, so they weren’t supporting me. Right. So it was like, I was, you know, living off the money that I saved up. And there was a lot of pressure from that. And, you know, going back to, I’m a very competitive person. I’m very motivated by this. It, it, it almost kind of helped me because I stood up. I want to prove them wrong. I want to do, like, when I tell them I want that, I want it to be such that, you know, there’s nothing that they can be, but proud of me. Right. Um, So I think that was kind of the biggest thing that I learned about myself was like, look, I’m okay with being radical, you know, I’m okay with, you know, just not seeking validation from others. Um, and then I would say the second thing is I always repeat this. Cause one of our board members taught me this and I say this almost every day, I say, What got you here will not get you there. And it’s, it is honestly the mantra of my journey as a startup entrepreneur, because, you know, when you sort of company the things that you do or changing every single day, right. And unless you have that ability to evolve as a person and be honest with yourself and say, Hey, like, this is what you need to do to get there. Um, You’re never going to succeed. Right? So like when we started the company, I was doing everything I was getting on the back of my desk book. I riding to every single doctor’s clinic in San Francisco and knocking on people’s doors, trying to have them flyers. Right. And I was at the same time trying to incorporate the business because to figure out taxes, figure, I’d go to market strategy, everything else. Once we raise our seed round, it became, how do I build a team? Right. What, what is the staffing model to build a successful organization? How do I learn how to recruit people? How do I learn how to inspire people? And now that we have all these employees, it’s like, okay, how do I create a culture where people are motivated and fulfilled by the work that they do. Right? And every single, every single stage, you have to be honest with yourself and say like, look, what do I need to change? And what do I need to do now to get it? You mean to the next level? Right? Um, so it’s. It’s I think that’s kind of one of the most important lessons I’ve learned as an entrepreneur.

 

Bryan: (00:25:37) I love that.I know of that journey a lot. Yeah.

 

Maggie: (00:25:40) That is amazing. It’s, it’s very inspiring to see you grow as a person, you know, and especially because the mission and the inspiration of deeds scribe is so near and dear to your heart, but you were trying to solve a problem, you know, being a care coordinator for mother and, you know, just kind of prove them wrong. And that, that goes so deep down in like Asian culture as well, you know? And they’re so they get so proud of us. If we have a stable job and a stable income, but you know, like when Brian and I quit our jobs, it was also very hard for us to tell our parents because we’re so afraid of the, the things that they’ll say and the things that we’ll think, you know, and for them to, not for them to know that we won’t have a stable job, it’s like, we want to prove them wrong. We want to tell them like, we’re going to be okay. You know,

 

Matthew: (00:26:22) I think it’s more than that too, right? Like for you guys, it’s okay. I I, as an Asian Americans, to some degree, I think success is defined for us, right? Like you grow up thinking, Hey, I want you to be a lawyer. I want you to be a doctor. I want you to be an accountant. Right. And you know, what I’ve found is like, you know, especially, I’m sure you guys have found this, you know, with your parents is like, what makes it even more proud is when you define success for yourself, And you can prove to them that like they raised somebody smart enough and good enough for that definition of success to be something that they could be proud of. Right. Um, so I think like the doctor, lawyer analogy is a good reference point, right. Um, but if you. You know, if your parents have raised somebody where they want, uh, or that person wants to Excel beyond that and define their own, enforce your own path. I think that’s where it becomes, you know, really special to see that, to see that happening.

 

Bryan: (00:27:25) Yeah, definitely agree with that part too. In stat, I’m more, it’s like your parents might not support you in the beginning, but after you prove that whatever you choose is viable is a viable career path. They are, they are your babies. That’s important. Yeah. To get to that point. It’s different struggle.

 

Maggie: (00:27:48) I love how you mentioned that. Um, you know, as you were growing into, you know, being CEO of this company, you got to learn new things. You have to learn how to recruit people. You have to learn how to, you know, manage people and lead the organization. And I did read an article that building culture within deep scrub was very important for you guys. And. You know, you guys would talk about how you, you could Slack someone at like 1:00 AM and their green light would be on because everyone just had the same vision for deep scrub, that they were so passionate about the mission. Right. And at any hour of the day or night, they would be willing to respond back because they’re just so passionate about the mission. And what kind of love to hear? Like how did you guys build that culture within deep scrub? I’m sure it had to take a lot of work to build that culture. It does take a lot of work to just, you know, run an organization and build culture within the organization. So how did you guys do it? I want to hear that as well.

 

Matthew: (00:28:47) Yeah. I mean, I think culture, a company’s culture is a direct reflection of your founders. Right? And it’s like the type of people, you know, I I’ve met a lot of entrepreneurs that are very well organized, but they have an organized chaos. Right. And I have other entrepreneurs that, you know, just like they’re workhorses, right. I I’m a very type, a type person. You know, my girlfriend would tell you that I never stopped working. She told me yesterday that in my sleep, I told her to map out the buyer journey. So, you know, it’s something that I was thinking about. And, you know, I think that the culture of the company takes on that, the same kind of behavior in the mindset of the founders. That’s that I think. For us, it became something that we didn’t really think about very early on. Right. But as I said, like when we’re starting the company, we’re doing everything right. And the last thing we wanted to think about was. You know, what color slat and we’re going to get, you know, our employees or how should we celebrate the small way. Um, and I think, yeah, as a team kind of grew, we started to learn that like, not everybody is as type a, as us or not. Everybody can work every single day and like, you know, be up at 4:00 AM when something happens. Um, so I think for us, it was just like, okay, how do we develop a culture where, you know, it’s. It’s all based off of what fulfills that person. Right? So like when I interview people, you know, the first thing I usually say is, look, I’ve read your resume. It’s really impressive, but I’m not really interested in talking about anything in that resume. What I want to do is I want to get to know who you are as a person and what motivates you. Right. Because as long as what motivates that person aligns with the mantra of the business, and they’re able to subscribe to that mantra, they’re able to really kind of devote themselves from a personal level to what, to, to what they want to work on. Um, because you know, for me, like, I like to say that the lines between work and life are blurred. Right. Um, like this, this is my life’s work. Right. And, um, you know, I want everybody as part of the business to feel that way as well. And as, as, as such, we fairly compensate them. Everybody in our company has a meaningful equity stake in our business because we strongly believe that that is how you align those incentives to say, Hey, look, I’m not here just because I want to make a salary I’m here because I want to change the world. Right. Um, and you need a team of people like that to, to really make that vision, um, that you have a reality, right?

 

Bryan: (00:31:37) No, that’s absolutely true. I love that, you know, and a lot how generous you are with taking care of the team and being there for them. So hats off to that. And when it’s that, how hard it is, it’s ability, you know, it’s, it’s extremely difficult, but once you get everyone onto the same vision, like. The work that we do is so gratifying, you know, and you just change the world.

 

Maggie: (00:31:57) Yeah, absolutely. And I love how you mentioned that, you know, everyone really needs to align their internal goals with the vision and the mission of the company. Right. You know, same thing, as you said, if you pay that person a salary, it takes so much more than just a salary to have that person be on board and be passionate about the company. You really need them to like, want to change the world and go along with this vision to change the world. Right. Because as soon as they get that salary, it’s like, okay, I’m going to go out for the rest of the week and not focus on work, but really be passionate about changing that world within that mission is so important.

 

Bryan: (00:32:35) What you said about. Well, just being your life work is still relatable to us as well. Like we see the hustle network being our life’s work. And because we see it that way or cell patient with the way we make decisions and do things because we want to make the best organization that we can in our lifetime to just really like create better representation. And we feel the same passion in your voice and your story and the way you treat your employees. This is yeah.

 

Maggie: (00:32:59) Yeah. It really reminds me of Asians and orphans. Well, cause we’ve had volunteers, you know, And what are our main focus is to always find people who do want to change the world and be an influence to the Asian community. Um, and not only volunteer just to volunteer. And so it is, it does take a long time. Yeah.

 

Bryan: (00:33:18) So what kind of tips and advice do you have for someone who wants to be an entrepreneur, you know, and something that you didn’t realize before that? Now you realize that you’re in that if you can tell your younger self, just one advice, what would that advice be?

 

Matthew: (00:33:33) It’s hard to just pick one. It’s hard to, um, you know, I think the first thing is that I said before, it’s just do it, right? Like stop waiting for the world to, to bring you what you want and go out and get it right. Like, Yeah. And, and, you know, just, don’t be afraid to ask for what you want, right? Like if you have an idea of the world and you know what you want out of it, don’t wait for the world to give it to you, go grab it. Right. And you know, if, if you are brave enough to do that, then you should also understand that, like, you know, only through that, will you be able to learn and test your true boundaries? Right. And I think that’s, that’s kind of a life’s about right. Life is about, you know, understanding who you are is, is, you know, monk-like journey to be the best version of yourself. And if you can, if you’re too afraid to, to confront some of the parts of yourself that, you know, aren’t so great, or you aren’t, you’re, you’re too afraid to, to confront some of the parts of yourself that you know, are awesome. Right. Then, you know, you’re just going to be who you are yesterday. Um, so I think the first thing is just gone do it. Right. Um, the second thing is I would say like, just celebrate the small minutes, right? I think especially as an entrepreneur, you’re your job is to solve unsolvable problem and the. The issue was solving an unsolvable problem is that it’s the paradox, right? There is a problem after problem after problem after problem. And you’re never really going to get to the point where, and you solved everything, right. That is unsolved problem is unsolvable, but along the way, you’re going to, you’re going to have these small wins, right? Like, you know, when you reach your, for example, you guys, when you do your hundredth podcast, Right or bras when we’ve got hundreds of customer or for us when we hit a million dollars, right? Like, That was the small wins that we just like, we want to make sure we celebrate, because if you’re always focusing on the problems, you’re going to get lost and you’re going to be like, why am I doing this? Like, I’m trying so hard and watching the world when you look back and like, you look at all the good that you’ve done. Right. Um, so just make sure that, you know, you see celebrating small wins because that’s the only way that, uh, you’re gonna stay. You’re gonna stay sane.

 

Maggie: (00:35:56) That’s a very sound advice. Um, and so we have one last question for you, Matt, and, um, we’re very curious to know what your goals are for the next year. They could be related to your business, or they could be personal goals as well.

 

Matthew: (00:36:13) Uh, um, so I think. I think for goals for the next year, we’re going out to raise our series a, um, I think that is one of the things that we have been working so hard for, for, you know, the past few years. And I think. When we look at kind of the metrics that we have, like, we’re really confident that we can go and do it, but you never know until you go through the process. Right. Um, and you know, one of the goals that we want to do is we want to be able to kind of. Um, go raise a series a so that we can have more resources to, to really accomplish that goal. Right. I mean, like to give one set at further to, to bring in the joy of care, back to medicine, um, you know, I think another goal is I really want to grow our team. Right. You know, I love the F I love our team and we were talking as founders the other day. Like our favorite part about building this business is not that. Um, you know, it’s not that we, we see all these amazing metrics or, you know, we get that cloud of, you know, being an entrepreneur is that we get to start a party of people that love each other and love what we’re doing. Um, and you know, we, we hope, you know, we grew from three to 25 employees in one year and we’re planning to go double that probably in the next year. So. That’s kind of another big goal, you know, personally, I want to, I want to just get in touch with, and people, you know, I think as an entrepreneur, you get so obsessed with what you’re doing, that you kind of lose touch with some people that you really care about. Um, and you know, you see them clapping from the sidelines, but again, right. You know, I, I admittedly, um, could be doing a better job, you know, getting in touch with people that I used to talk to every day. Um, so, you know, that’s a personal goal for me.

 

Maggie: (00:38:10) Amazing. Well, we can’t wait to see all of those goals, um, come to light and, you know, we, we, we know that you can do it. So where can our listeners find out more about you and deep scribe online?

 

Matthew: (00:38:24) So you can visit us at our website. It’s a deep scribe at.ai. Um, that’s the best place to reach us. You can find us on LinkedIn, um, or anything else like that. If you want to email me, my email is not@thescrub.ai, please. Um, always happy to talk to people and like, honestly, like, you know, one of the things. That I take pride in is like helping other people. So I can’t even count the number of people that have helped me on this journey. And like, you know, we are as a company standing on the shoulders of giants, like we would be nowhere, have we not asked for help from people? Um, so it’s, you know, I always like to pay it for if someone’s listening here and, you know, wants to talk, always feel free to reach out to me.

 

Maggie: (00:39:12) Amazing. Thank you so much for that offer Matt. It was amazing hearing your story today. We really enjoyed it. Thank you so much for being on the show.

 

Bryan: (00:39:19) Thank you so much, Matt. Appreciate you.

 

Matthew: (00:39:21) Alright, thanks Brian. Thanks Maggie you

 

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